[Community of A/V Enthusiasts]
Display Calibration
I never had my display (a 56" Samsung 1080p DLP) calibrated by an ISF tech. I found the user control settings that other people were using to try to get their display as close as they could, or used Digital Video Essentials, but never any actual gear that would give me information on my settings. Also, the Samsung didn't have any good user CMS controls without accessing the service menu, which can be scary for anyone.
This past week, however, I decided to use a guide to access the service menu and some hardware and sotware (an Xrite i1Pro and Calman) to see how close I could get the TV to the ISF standards for HDTV. Attached you'll find the graphs that were done after the calibration (we accidentally deleted the before data). What you can't see is the saturation details (which Calman doesn't have but Color HCFR does) which would show that blue becomes fully saturated by around 50-75% instead of at 100%, which is making my purples have a very blue push to them. You can also see that the green is off as well, which is pushing the cyan off. Since all of the colors influence each other on my set, I had to settle for green and cyan being more off than the other colors, as that was the best choice.
It was an interesting experiment to try, and while I'm overall happier with the colors of my TV, purples are off too much which is annoying to me unfortunately. It's still better than it was, however.
This past week, however, I decided to use a guide to access the service menu and some hardware and sotware (an Xrite i1Pro and Calman) to see how close I could get the TV to the ISF standards for HDTV. Attached you'll find the graphs that were done after the calibration (we accidentally deleted the before data). What you can't see is the saturation details (which Calman doesn't have but Color HCFR does) which would show that blue becomes fully saturated by around 50-75% instead of at 100%, which is making my purples have a very blue push to them. You can also see that the green is off as well, which is pushing the cyan off. Since all of the colors influence each other on my set, I had to settle for green and cyan being more off than the other colors, as that was the best choice.
It was an interesting experiment to try, and while I'm overall happier with the colors of my TV, purples are off too much which is annoying to me unfortunately. It's still better than it was, however.
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chris samsung color.pdf, 36 KB -
chris samsung.pdf, 96 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Chris Eberle on
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Samsung DLPs are quite unique in their calibration method. There is no other TV like them! It's tricky but the results are worth it.
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Permalink Reply by B Flo on -
Ha! You want tricky try my Sharp with its 6 point RGB gamma (6 points each for R, G, B, corresponding roughly to IRE 20 35 50 65 80 95). In theory should make for exquisite results, in practice, an all weekend affair as you bounce between G3, G2, G3, G2, G1, G2, G1....then G3, G4, G3, G4, G5, G4, G5, G6, G5, G6....then start all over again with R and then B....and oh yea you have to constantly flip in and out of service menu (it completely obscures the pattern). :)
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Permalink Reply by John E. Johnson, Jr. on -
What we probably will eventually have is a color data set that is transmitted with the TV program or Blu-ray player, and your TV adjusts its color settings to match an internal standard.
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Permalink Reply by B Flo on
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"What we probably will eventually have is a color data set that is transmitted with the TV program or Blu-ray player, and your TV adjusts its color settings to match an internal standard"
That didnt make any sense (to me at least). We already have a standard, the monitors on which programs are crafted are calibrated to it, we calibrate our monitors at home to the same standard, end of story. What exactly would you transmit as metadata?
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Permalink Reply by Chris Heinonen on -
I think what I want to see is a combination of things. I would like TV's to ship with their own calibration sensor (which, on a mass production level, are pretty cheap now to make) and their own internal test patterns. However often you want, you can hook up the calibration puck, attach it to the screen, choose an option in the menu, and the display will cycle through the patterns, doing the calibration on it's own. It would even be able to easily program in Daytime and Night modes that you could cycle between with the remote.
Where this comes into play with that John said, I think, is that depending on what you are watching, it could tell the display the standards against which it was recorded (Rec. 709 for HD, Rec. 601 for DVD, even tell the display that it should be 5400K instead of 6500K for Black and White movies) and the display would automatically adjust it's calibration to match the media. That ability, combined with the ability to self-calibrate, would be fantastic, and I would buy that display as soon as it was available, but who knows how much of a demand there would be for this when the best pre-calibrated sets now (Pioneer Kuro Plasma's) are going out of production.
B Flo said:"What we probably will eventually have is a color data set that is transmitted with the TV program or Blu-ray player, and your TV adjusts its color settings to match an internal standard"
That didnt make any sense (to me at least). We already have a standard, the monitors on which programs are crafted are calibrated to it, we calibrate our monitors at home to the same standard, end of story.
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I'd be glad to see displays that have a true working color management system. One that has real hue, saturation and lightness controls and sufficient range in those controls to dial in whatever color gamut you want. Then, I'd ask for multiple memories so I could have at least two gamuts (601 and 709).
So many TVs have functional grayscale controls, a working CMS is the next logical step. Some TVs have a CMS but it doesn't work properly. Most TVs have no CMS. You might get a couple of gamut choices and if you're really lucky one of them will be accurate! I have see progress over the last few years though. There is hope!
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Permalink Reply by B Flo on
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I would like TV's to ship with their own calibration sensor (which, on a mass production level, are pretty cheap now to make)
Good luck with that. Not to put too fine a point on it, but when it comes to color spectrometers etc, cheap = inaccurate, to the point (at least in my experience) that you can end up making a set's greyscale less accurate (if the TV was reasonable to begin with, which some actually are these days). I have no doubt we will see this functionality soon (maybe even as a function of the AVR) but don't expect it to be cheap (at least ones that actually work as oppose to being a marketing gimmick).
I'll give you that flipping between 709 and 601 would be cool (and was in fact available years ago with the "joe kane Samsung") but IMO anything more is just introducing unnecessary complexity into an industry that cant even get ONE standard right.
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Permalink Reply by Kieran Coghlan on -
I think Heinonen's idea is pretty cool. And while B-Flo's comment is true, it might not be too far off before quality colorimeters are available on a mass production (cheap) basis.
This all sounds very familiar to the visual equivalent of what Audyssey has given us for the audible side of Home Theater calibration. Not only is this possible, I think someone in the industry should bring this to market. For audio (YPAO, Audyssey) Custom calibration will always (?) be best, but automatic brings "very good" (if not great) quality to the masses. It would be great if this could be had for the video side, too.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Heinonen on
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I'd really expect something like this to show up on really upper end gear first, such as LED LCD's and high end plasma displays (or OLED, when they start to come out in larger sizes). A reasonable color meter like an Xrite display LT can be found for around $130, and when you consider the markup, distribution, and extra software included in there, it probably wouldn't cost a display manufacturer too much to add one down the line. When I see new displays with a wider gamut (such as a new model from JVC), it would be great as it could show all of the extra detail in photos that use the Adobe RGB color spectrum, but I don't want that to mess up the gamut when I watch a Blu-ray disc. A nice, self calibrating TV with easy to switch modes would be something the high-end community would embrace I believe, and that could eventually make it's way down the line.
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Permalink Reply by B Flo on
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"A reasonable color meter like an Xrite display LT can be found for around $130 ..."
Can't say I've messed with that one, but from experience I'm skeptical (or maybe I should say cynical ). Bill B could perhaps better comment here....
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One issue with including a color meter with a TV is the meter itself does not maintain its accuracy over time. Even the most expensive meters require a yearly re-calibration to maintain their specs.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Heinonen on
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Could this re-calibration be accounted for by including a color reference card that you would scan a few color blocks of before you start, much like you would use to get your color right when using a digital camera?
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