[Community of A/V Enthusiasts]

Pioneer Elite vs. non-Elite

I know this has been asked in other forums but I wanted to hear from you guys.

In about a week or so I'll be picking up my first flatscreen. I'm trying to decide between the Pioneer Elite Sig 141 and the non-Elite 6020. Supposedly the have near identical picture quality. The difference is the Elite can be calibrated in more depth and from afar using it's own IP address. Nice feature. But is it worth the extra $1000.00 (CDN)? What are some of the more obvious differences that I should be aware of that matter.

I'm also considering a Panasonic 54" V10 as my budget choice. Looks fairly decent in the shops. Even uncalibrated. Though, perhaps some shops might have had it in THX mode.

But the Pioneers are noticeably better. The inky blacks they produce are unsurpassed.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kieran Coghlan on July 1, 2009 at 12:52pm: I wish more of a deal would be made of dynamic range than "inky blacks". I haven't seen any of the new Pioneer plasmas, but I've heard that the inky blacks come at some expense to contrast ratio / dynamic range.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Andrew Cheung on July 1, 2009 at 1:58pm: Really? Where did you read this? I would think the dynamic range is as good as the black level. Leading the market. In any event there is no denying how great the picture quality is. Can't be beaten. Even pre-ISF. :) I'm just trying to make the right choice. To see if buying an Elite is worth it.

I did read that with the 6020 (non-Elite) you cannot adjust the color temperature. Strange omission in a plasma of this class. One reason I just might pay the extra $1000 and buy the Elite Signature 141 plamsa monitor.

Love the idea that you can have your ISF technician check your 141 and turn it from afar. Via the internet. Saves him a trip to your home.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Chris Eberle on July 1, 2009 at 5:13pm: A Pioneer Elite display (any Elite model) has a true contrast ratio of over 50,000 to 1 in the ISF mode. Even the Pure mode is good for about 40,000 to 1. I have measured this on quite a few examples. The Elites also have a correct Rec 709 color gamut, the non-Elite TVs do not. Non-Elites can be calibrated in the service menu with ControlCAL software through the RS-232 interface. However only the grayscale is adjustable. The results are pretty close to an Elite but for ultimate accuracy (and dynamic range), the Elite can't be beat. I think the higher price is worth it. I made that choice myself in fact!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Andrew Cheung on July 1, 2009 at 7:24pm: He Chris,

Thanks for commenting. But can you explain what you mean by "correct rec 709 color gamut"?

The price difference is "only" $1000.00 CDN. Not a huge deal. And as I mentioned you cannot adjust the color temperature on the on-Elite KURO's. Find this very odd as lesser flatscreens allow for this. By lesser I mean more in terms of cost than quality. Why Pioneer decided to do this I don't know. The non-Elite 6020 is not a cheap plasma by any stretch.

I think I'll most likely end up with the Elite Signature 141. Will probably pop into the local Elite dealer next week and put down a deposit.

Btw. In my last posting turn=tune :); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Chris Eberle on July 2, 2009 at 5:30am: The Rec 709 color gamut is a set of coordinates on the CIE color chart. These are the specified values for Red, Green, Blue, Cyan, Magenta and Yellow. Shown above is a chart showing the measured gamut from my PRO-111. Compare that to the chart from a 5020.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Andrew Cheung on July 2, 2009 at 8:43am: Thanks Chris for the graphs. Are the squares on the 5020 graph where the correct positions should be? I'm guessing they are. Odd they didn't represent the correct positions on the Elite with black dots.

Will be putting down a deposit for my new 141 and Paradigm Reference Studio v.5 speakers today. :); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Chris Eberle on July 2, 2009 at 11:13am: Yes the squares indicate the correct positions. On the 111 graph the squares are smaller (different software version) but they are there if you look close. The dots are under the squares. You can see it's a near-perfect overlay.

Congrats on your new TV and speakers!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Bill Goodwin on December 19, 2009 at 5:30am: Andrew Cheung said:
Thanks Chris for the graphs. Are the squares on the 5020 graph where the correct positions should be? I'm guessing they are. Odd they didn't represent the correct positions on the Elite with black dots.

Will be putting down a deposit for my new 141 and Paradigm Reference Studio v.5 speakers today. :)

Congrats Andrew!
I bit the bullet on a 141 FD a few months ago, after "recycling" an older DLP. The picture quality is simply amazing. I use it in a light controlled basement rec room. Some thoughts are--
1. It is HEAVY. It took me, my wife, and oldest son to mount it on the wall.
2. My brother picked up a sammy lcd, and instantly complained about being dizzy watching a football game.
3. You can download ISF calibration software from AVS forum and unlock the ISF modes.
4. The black levels (imo) are the MOST important aspect of picture quality. Contrast ratio and detail depend on how accurate the distinction between shades.
5. You will feel it in the wallet, but you will never regret the purchase!

Have fun!
Bill; ▶ Reply to This